Kross Communication, Part 02

 _

In-between Karrion Killer Kross’s post-WrestleMania performance and leaving WWE on August 10, there are two other stories to discuss that, while having nothing to do with Kross specifically, would affect his situation by the time August 10 came to pass.

 

In chronological order, first was the release and immediate re-signing of Ron Killings. R-Truth was primarily a comedy character but one that was beloved not just by fans but by his fellow performers. No one knew just how beloved, though, until Killings announced that he would no longer be with WWE after the end of May:

 

 

Reaction was swift and ugly. As fans continually chanted for “Truth” on the following WWE television shows, many of his peers also expressed regret and disbelief that Killings was going away. The reaction from all sides was so swift and ugly that he was brought back a mere six days later to an explosive reaction.

 

Reactions then changed to confusion. Was this the plan all along? Was Killings really let go or was this, as WWE Chief Content Officer Paul Levesque would put it when asked about Killings’s return later that night, “All part of the show, man”?

 

In reality, it was a company recognizing its mistake and correcting course. It is rare that WWE changes its mind on releasing a talent this soon, but the reaction to Killings informed the company that it was wiser to keep Killings on the roster.

 

However, this would not deter a company already known for using real-lifer situations to tell a story prevent it from attempting to do so here to save face. Nor would it prevent them from blurring the lines of reality very soon after, albeit in a much different situation.

 

On the July 12 edition of Saturday Night’s Main event on NBC, Seth Rollins appeared to re-injure his knee in a match with L.A. Knight. Rollins made media appearances informing that he would be on the shelf “for an extended period of time.”

 

However, word had gotten out that not only was Rollins not injured, but that this was “all part of the show, man.”

 

POST Wrestling’s John Pollock revealed he had been informed that Rollins was not injured on July 12 and was planning on participating in a major story involving Rollins winning the World Championship after revealing his injury had been faked. That is exactly what came to pass at SummerSlam on August 2 when Rollins revealed his injury was a ruse and cashed in an immediate World Championship match contract (the proverbial “Money in the Bank”) on his arch-rival, CM Punk. Rollins left SummerSlam as a perfectly healthy World Heavyweight Champion.

 

It's been eight paragraphs and an embedded X post since Karrion Killer Kross has even been mentioned. So what does any of this have to do with his situation?

 

WWE is no stranger to taking advantage of a real-life situation – or even manufacturing one – to further interest in its product, characters and storylines. Two instances of which that have happened within the last 90 days have been detailed here. Pro wrestling fans are accustomed to asking if any given situation is real life or if the fans are being worked because of the lengths that wrestling companies will go to in order to attempt a suspension of disbelief.

 

That same question had been asked of Kross’s situation. Is he really on his way out the door? Is he really underappreciated? Or is the presentation of his character, both online and on television, really just an elaborate story?

 

Kross has gone on record since leaving WWE to detail the contract negotiation that took place and to emphasize that his story is very real. The interest in Kross and his wife, Scarlett, has already demonstrated to be palpable as Kross has engaged a feud with another former WWE performer turned independent superstar, Matt Cardona. The story began in one independent company and a separate one has signed the match. But along the way, Kross had to address whether or not those appearances are part of a larger, more elaborate story.

 

It's wholly possible that Kross could sign another contract with WWE and all of this could retroactively become “all part of the show, man.” But the lesson to take away from Kross’s final months in WWE comes in the form of similar outside factors.

 

Kross himself admitted that his post-WrestleMania performance was just that – a performance. Yet it was one specifically designed to suspend the fans’ disbelief and convince them that his feelings were real. The questioning of reality had already begun with Kross’s own performance.

 

Add to that two other instances where reality was used to advance stories all within the same timeframe. It becomes difficult for fans to believe what the news they read isn’t manufactured to advance the stories being told in this fictional world.

 

And that is part of what Karrion Killer Kross had to deal with. Yes, he beat both Ron Killings and Seth Rollins to the punch, but as those stories grabbed attention, the timeline became immaterial. Fans had been cheering for him at WWE events but the reaction was somewhat muted. Was he really leaving or was this just part of the story, too? It was difficult to tell for sure, and that uncertainty may have affected reactions.

 

The takeaway here is being aware of your environment. Using reality to advance your character or story in pro wrestling is not a bad idea if it’s done correctly. Or if several other people aren’t doing the same thing at the same time. If the environment is one of constant questioning of what’s real and what’s fiction, the effect is diluted and the interest is lessened.

 

How it affected Kross can be discussed in both negative and positive terms. Kross has said that working in WWE is his dream and that’s where he wants to be. As of this writing, he is not there. But he is in high demand across the country as an independent performer and his career is thriving at that level. It’s a matter of perspective.

 

But if his goal was to remain in WWE, that did not happen. One of the reasons for that can be attributed to attempting to convince his fans and those in charge of the company he was performing for that his actions were “all part of the show” when none of them could believe him.

Kross Communication, Part 01

Reprinted from Substack, 08.26.25

Many reading this that follow professional wrestling with some regularity are probably very familiar with the story of Karrion Killer Kross in 2025. For those that aren’t, Wikipedia actually has a decent summary, so I’ll let it do the heavy lifting for a moment:

After the disbandment of The Final Testament, Kross would be involved in backstage segments where he would try and convince various superstars to embrace their dark side, some of whom include Sami Zayn and AJ Styles. After months of being involved in backstage segments, Kross had his first match since February on the April 14 episode of Raw, where he took on Styles in a losing effort.^[90] Kross would go on to appear in Styles’ match against Logan Paul at WrestleMania 41, preventing interference from a member of Paul’s entourage. Kross would attempt to persuade Styles to hit Paul with brass knuckles, to no avail, after which Styles proceeded to lose the match. Kross would appear later on the WrestleMania 41 recap show with Scarlett where he would cut a highly acclaimed promo, expressing frustration with Styles and WWE as a whole as well as not having a match on the card. At the end of the promo, he referenced himself as "Killer Kross" for the first time on WWE programming.^[91] Kross continued to taunt Sami Zayn in backstage segments on Raw, eventually leading to a match against Zayn at Night of Champions, which he lost. During his feud with Zayn, Kross began receiving massive support from fans on social media and at live shows with "We want Kross" being chanted during shows.^[92] On August 2 at SummerSlam, Kross was defeated by Zayn, ending their feud. This would also be Kross' final appearance in WWE.^[93] On August 10, Kross and Scarlett's WWE contracts both expired and were not renewed, ending their three-year second tenure with the company.^[94] After departing from WWE, Kesar revealed that he was only given 24 hours to sign his new contract offer, which didn't include Scarlett re-signing along with him and is ultimately why he chose to depart the company.^[95][96]

 

Second return to independent circuit (2025–present)

Kesar, as Karrion Kross, made his return to GCW on April 17, 2025 at Josh Barnett's Bloodsport XIII, where he defeated J. R. Kratos.^[97] On August 23 at GCW Homecoming, Kesar, as Killer Kross, and Scarlett made their first post-WWE appearance, where they attacked Matt Cardona.^[98]

For the purposes of this specific analysis, we go back to April when Kross gave a performance on Sam Roberts & Megan Morant’s WrestleMania Recap show that did not sound like a performance at all:

There had already been discussion in the fandom that the Karrion Kross fans were seeing on social media wasn’t matching up with what was seen on television. The television character was similar to its social media counterpart, but the latter felt much more genuine. More like the real Karrion Kross. At least that was the perception.

 

As we would learn later, however, this may have been Mistake Number One. While fans and even some media outlets were singing Kross’s praises for his online authenticity, those in charge of the company he worked for at the time weren’t made aware that his post-WrestleMania performance was just that. As he recounted to Canadian sports journalist Ariel Helwani:

I let everybody know, let’s make sure this is somewhat protected from the audience, but let everyone know internally that this is a work because not every department is in lock step communication with one another. So, I told everybody that. Sure enough, not everybody knew that it was a work.

 

A lot of everything that you see goes through the creative process. It goes through a team. I was under the impression that I was doing something improvisational and it was okay. But like I said, sometimes the communication is not in lock step with each other. So no one told them that this was a work.

 

So, they’re under the impression, like a week goes by, that I flipped out. So like, one day I waited for Hunter outside a production meeting. Once it was actually brought to my attention that he was not okay with it, and I explained everything to him. No one told him anything. So, as far as I know, at that point, we were good, but everyone was under the impression, a lot of people thought I just lost my mind. I was just trying to do my job. My job that day was to make people believe, like any other day.

Yes, pro wrestling is scripted most times. It is a very physical performance art that relies heavily on characterization and storytelling. But it is also very much a business. Would you go off on an explosive diatribe about how much your boss and your workplace sucks, and not let your boss and higher-ups in on the fact that it was a joke when it really didn’t sound like one at the time?
 
Effectively, that’s what happened here. Kross angrily disparaged his workplace without telling his workplace that it was part of the performance.
 
There is a term in pro wrestling known as “going into business for yourself.” Basically, it translates into: Prioritizing yourself over what has been planned for you. At a cursory glance, there seems to be nothing wrong with that. Until you realize that pro wrestling requires working with someone else 95% of the time. Whether it’s on a story, a match, a talking segment, you name it. That collaboration is key to making the performance art succeed.
 
Kross, whether he meant to or not, most likely broke that trust with WWE by “going into business for himself” with that segment. I’m convinced that wasn’t his intent. He was performing up to what the show producers wanted in that moment. To hear Kross tell it, it was not his intent to put his interests ahead of what the company had planned for him creatively. But, by Kross’s own admission, it apparently didn’t come across that way when it happened.
 
Not making sure that was the case before going “off-script” is the first lesson to take away from the Karrion Killer Kross story. But it isn’t the only one.
 
To be continued…

An Introduction to Navigating the Digital Landscape for Pro Wrestling

Originally published on Substack and reprinted here. Yes, I now have a Substack page specifically for, as mentioned below, "Stories about the intersection of social media and pro wrestling." 

Those pieces will be reprinted here because, although I may neglect this poor thing, I can't bring myself to abandon it.

Introduce Yourself, right on!

 

Welp, that’s what I’m here to do.

 

My name is Michael Melchor. Believe it or not, I’m doing school work as I write this. Sort of.

 

Most current and pertinent to this space, I am in the final semester of my Master’s degree at Indiana University. My thesis is a creative one detailing the book that will be born from it.

 

The title of the book? Social Media Is a Work: Navigating the Digital Landscape for Pro Wrestling. I am building a guide for independent professional wrestlers on the best ways to create and utilize digital platforms. In doing so, I can help independent professional wrestlers build the foundation to attract a following to carry through their pro wrestling careers. The guide is meant for those willing to turn pro wrestling into their career, as the information herein is intended to help pro wrestling performers and social media influencers alike grow their digital platform and convert that into a steady business.

 

I understand that seems a very specific niche to target. But I also believe others using social media to further their brand can also benefit from this, as they will be able to understand the concept of selling an engaging persona by using social media and marketing. With pro wrestling being a unique realm in entertainment that employs charisma and creative storytelling, the traits needed to succeed in pro wrestling can translate to a wider audience online.

 

 

So, Why Me?

 

I can see people asking who am I to do this? What qualifies me to be the expert on this specific intersection?

 

How is Started vs How it Ended, in Logo form

I worked as Digital Media Manager for Ohio Valley Wrestling (yes, that OVW) from November of 2019 to November of 2022. During this time, I managed all of the company’s social media channels (Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube) as well as its website. That meant planning and scheduling content, creating graphics, scheduling and posting, working with Al Snow and the creative team at OVW to ensure characterization and stories were kept consistent while simultaneously promoting live events and driving tickets sales via online promotion.

 

In May of 2022, I also began my tenure as Digital Media Manager at Grindhouse Pro Wrestling, a separate company based in Jeffersonville, Indiana. I currently serve in that role, doing everything listed above only at a different company. And, instead of Al Snow, the people I work with to ensure characterization and stories are kept consistent while simultaneously promoting live events and driving tickets sales via online promotion are owner 2 Tuff Tony (TNA, JCW) and Head Trainer/Booker “Reverend” Ronnie Roberts (OVW, Netflix’s “Wrestlers” series). The “Social Media and Marketing Seminar” that I conducted for Grindhouse Pro Wrestling in 2022 was gathered, organized, and presented as an instructional course rather than telling a story. The origins of this project can be traced back to that.

 

There are several other companies I have worked for, largely in social media and digital media capacities. I started filming shows and working on video in Orlando, FL in 2012. I spent almost three years with Frank Goodman’s Pro Wrestling Xtreme, which reverted back to the name of his new York promotion USA Pro Wrestling. I served as a Social media Consultant for CHIKARA in 2019 until the company folded in 2020. My primary responsibility was working a younger crew of talent learning about pro wrestling outside of the ring. I served that same role for Camp Leapfrog from late 2020 (after CHIKARA had folded) until Spring of 2021 (when Leapfrog also sadly folded).

 

In early 2023, I was also Head of production for New Wave Pro (where I filmed, directed and edited their live events for IWTV and other outlets)  until – you might start noticing a pattern, and I swear I’m not the cause – it also went on indefinite hiatus in 2023.

And then there is the academic aspect. The combination of social media and pro wrestling, from a business and (specifically) marketing standpoint, has been the primary focus of my Master’s in Interdisciplinary Studies since I began that track in Fall of 2020. The amount of research done on both topics and where they meet leave me cross-eyed two-to-three times per week.

 

To that end, I have also done academic presentations on the subject. One of the most notable ones was done for the IU Southeast Student Conference and built around a narrative thread. “How Social Media Led to the Creation of Another National Pro Wrestling Company” told a story of the creation of All Elite Wrestling and how the use of digital platforms largely made it possible.

 

 

So What Can You Expect Here?

 

The short answer: Stories about the intersection of social media and pro wrestling, and how can affect the other and vice versa. SPOILER ALERT: That starts tomorrow with an analysis of Karrion Killer Kross and the disconnect between the digital landscape and the real world.

 

The longer answer: Various things may occupy this space. It could well be a place wherein I document the process of creating this guide. It could be short missives of pro wrestling stories with a digital component or angle to them. Anything from advice to analysis to documentation containing the intersection of pro wrestling and digital media.

 

It’s honestly tough to say because even I’m not 100% sure. I’m basically here to work out ideas, conduct research and gather ideas and thoughts for the thesis and (ultimately) the book. But I can say with certainty that whatever is published here will, in some way, shape or form, stick to the topic of the intersection of pro wrestling and digital media.

 

There will certainly be exclusive / standalone pieces like the aforementioned Karrion Killer Kross analysis. There may be some short thoughts. Informal survey questions (not to be used as academic data but more for ideas). Brief (or long) missives on current related stories. We’ll find out together.

 

Thank you for reading and (if you so choose) embarking on this process and journey with me. As Lash LeRoux* would have said in late-90s / early-00s WCW, “Laissez les bon temps rouler!”

 

*Fun fact: I once dated his brother’s ex-wife. Does that count as experience toward this project?

 

Interview with John Bush of Anthrax - Oct 29, 2003

Some news has happened that I have to announce before we get to this.

A while back, I mentioned I was writing a Masters thesis on the use of social media in pro wrestling.

That has evolved. Into a book for beginning independent wrestlers to create / maintain / observe best practices for their digital profiles and grow their careers.

A publisher is already lined up.

This isn't here as a flex or to brag. It's here as motivation.

This will easily be the biggest challenge I've ever taken on. And, if successful, my biggest professional achievement.

+++++++

That out of the way, I'll keep this (as) short and sweet (as I can). I've posted one interview with a member of Anthrax here already, but this one came first.

Anthtrax - specifically 1990’s Persistence of Time - is what made me a heavy metal fan. My dear friend Sandy let me borrow a cassette (he says, betraying his age again) of Persistence of Time and made me wonder why the hell I hadn’t listened to them sooner.

In 2003, Anthrax was on tour supporting We’ve Come For You All. Our man in Amsterdam, Grimmy Acosta, and I couldn’t miss this opportunity so we were off to the House of Blues venue in Orlando. We’d arranged for passes to the show - but before that, we would be speaking to (then-)lead singer John Bush.

This was my first time backstage at an arena. I kinda felt bad that John Bush sat on a coffee table while I took up a couch, especially considering how worn out he was after a full run on the road. But he was such a great guy that took it all in stride as we talked to him for quite a bit before their last show on this leg of the tour.

 

+++++++

411Music’s Exclusive Interview With Anthrax’s John Bush

For nearly 20 years, Anthrax has stood strong as one of the founders of speed and thrash metal. Beginning with 1984’s Fistful Of Metal, Anthrax has pummeled fans worldwide with breakneck riffs, a bludgeoning rhythm section, and topics ranging from abortion and war to Stephen King and Judge Dredd.

Recently, the band released We’ve Come For You All (Sanctuary Records) – a violent return to form that has been hailed as the best Anthrax record since Sound Of White Noise. From the opening double-kick drive of “What Doesn’t Die” to the soulful salvation of the current single, “Safe Home”, WCFYA is a critical favorite and a brilliant backdrop for a raging road show.

It is a good time for the band, especially considering what Anthrax has endured over the last several years. Three label changes, two due to the companies folding out from under them. A lead guitar slot left vacant for years, only recently filled. And of course the emergence of the disease that shares their name as a terrorist threat. Through it all, Anthrax has surfaced from under a vicious mess of circumstances that would have shattered most bands. They live not only to tell the tale of survival and rage, but to blast it all over the world.

Since the CD’s release, the band – currently consisting of lead singer John Bush, rhythm guitarist Scott Ian, bassist Frank Bello, drummer Charlie Benante, and new lead guitarist Rob Caggiano – has been across the country, tearing down venues great and small on the “Taking The Music Back” tour.

In this exclusive interview, we caught up with John Bush on the last night of the current leg of the tour. The fatigue of life on the road was visible, but Bush was still spirited and prepared to tear down the House Of Blues in Orlando, FL. Make no mistake – Anthrax is still one of metal’s dominant forces, and they have come for us all.

Interview with Anthrax lead singer John Bush – 10/29/2003

Michael Melchor: Alright, looks like the recorder’s running. We’re here with John Bush—

John Bush: Is this for radio, or – no, this is for a magazine, right?

MM: Yeah, this is for the magazine. BackStage Pass.

JB: Okay. I wasn’t sure if I should be in my “radio vibe” or what I was supposed to be.

MM: Not a problem.

[Grimmy Acosta]: Would it be alright I get a couple of pictures during the interview?

JB: Yeah, sure. You can get me in my Cubs shirt that I’ve worn for 3 days now. Starting to smell pretty good.

[GA]: [Laughs] Ahh, you can’t smell a picture.

JB: That’s right. Unless it’s scratch and sniff. You can write that, though – John Bush was pretty ripe as we were doing this interview.

MM: [Laughs] Excellent. Well, this tour’s just about over. I think you’ve got one more date in Puerto Rico, and then that’s it, right?

JB: Yeah, it was really just kind of a quick jaunt, about 3 weeks. In all honesty, it was a way to get to Puerto Rico. That show was confirmed, it’s a big gig, and we needed a way to get from New York to Puerto Rico. Taking nothing away from all the places we’ve played, of course, but we needed it to get down here. We’re flying out of Orlando, actually, to get to Puerto Rico. And it’s been – kinda grueling, quite honestly. We haven’t had that many days off. It’s been really fatiguing for everybody.

MM: Yeah, looking at the schedule, it looks like it’s been one right after another, pretty much.

JB: We kinda did, like, 10 shows in a row if you add the [Last Call With] Carson Daly show. That was kinda like our only day off, but it wasn’t really a day off because we needed to focus on playing live and acoustically, so we needed to be really on top of our game. So it’s just been a little rough. With all due respect here, everyone says the South is just a rough area, it kinda always has been. Some of the shows have been hit and miss. Some have been good, and some of them haven’t, quite honestly. Tonight’s the House Of Blues, so if there’s 2 people out there, it’s still gonna look right. [Laughs]

MM: [Laughs] Right. Well, I can pretty much vouch for the venue. I’ve seen—so far this year, I’ve seen Ministry here, and also Queensryche and Dream Theater. So it’s always been a decent show with a decent crowd.

With John Bush at Orlando House of Blues. Photo by Grimmy Acosta

JB: Right. Well, we have high hopes. We played Myrtle Beach [SC] House of Blues about a week ago…and now, granted, I think Myrtle Beach is a place people go for vacation. I’m sure Orlando is obviously, too, but…it was a great venue to play, but the crowd was kinda sparse, but whatever. We’ve played some dumpy clubs on the tour, too, that were packed, but they were just dumps. You know, what’re you going to do? You’re in Jacksonville, NC. You play where you play there.

MM: That’s true. I can see that.

JB: We’ve been selling a lot of records on the road, and that’s an important thing. We’ve been doing “meet-and-greets” after the shows every night and we sign the record and say hello to the fans. That’s been awesome, actually, so that’s been a really big positive.

MM: Excellent. Speaking of [We’ve Come For You All], I’ve noticed it sounds a little more intense, maybe, than the last couple have been. I don’t know if that’s been a reactionary thing? I’ve heard it called a comeback album—

JB: We didn’t say that.

MM: No, not at all. And, quite frankly, neither have I, but there were a lot of things that happened, with the name scare and post-9/11, which – I thought Scott’s Alpha Male [web post] about changing the band’s name to “Basket Full Of Puppies” was just hilarious.

JB: That was a joke, and CNN just happened to pick up on it, and then didn’t say that it was a joke.

MM: Lovely. They didn’t bother reading the rest of it.

JB: Exactly, yeah. And they put it out in the news and made it seem like it really was the truth. “Excuse me, you didn’t read the article, it was a joke” - and they just put that part on. It was really lame. It was bad journalism, and it makes me wonder what other shit that they say that is not true.

MM: Definitely. Going into this one, was there anything else that was going on – what with the label switch from Ignition and what not, that little extra fire going into this one, or was this like making any other one?

JB: There may have been a little extra. Obviously, the last several years of this band – probably since Stomp 442, really because that’s when everything fell apart with Elektra [Records]. There’ve been a lot of things that we could probably use as motivation, in the world of primarily business, that would spark a lot of anger and a lot of ferocity on record. I’m sure we used that subconsciously. I don’t think we necessarily sit down and go, “We’re very fuckin’ pissed off; let’s make an even angrier album.” We should be able to just – we’re a heavy metal band, we’re experienced and we know what we’re doing, so we should be able to do that on our own. I don’t know if we necessarily need that as extra inspiration, but when it’s there and it’s prevalent and you’re dealing with it on a day-to-day basis, and everyday you find out that, the label went under, or the label isn’t willing to let you out of its deal, or who knows? Over the last 6-7 years, if there’s been a situation in the music business, we’ve dealt with it, including the whole anthrax scare happening. So I think that, obviously, we could probably use all those things as motivation. I don’t think that that’s the sole reason for this record sounding the way it does; I think we just wanted to…you always try and out do yourself. You’re always trying to make a better record, a better sounding record.

MM: And in dealing with everything, it’s just a matter of all that spilling over from everyday life into what you’re doing in the studio.

JB: Yeah, yeah. You always think that the last record you make is the best record you make. Then I think about a year later is when you can have a really fair evaluation of it. So right now, since it’s only been out about 7 months, it’s still the best record we’ve ever made, you know? [Laughs] But, you know, come May, we may look back and go, “Well, this didn’t work, this worked, that part didn’t work,” and I think that’s how you look back on it. That’s the best way to say it.

MM: This is definitely one of the best, I think, overall. Period. I’ve about worn this thing out since I got it.

JB: It’s a great record, and it’s up to us to try and get out and let everyone know that it’s a great Anthrax record worth purchasing.

MM: Yeah, it is great – especially with [drummer Charlie Benante] doing double-time on songs like “What Doesn’t Die” just – oh, good Lord.

JB: Charlie out did himself on this album. And it all kinda starts with the drums and the rhythm. And he’s the catalyst, so it started with the crazed drumming. I don’t know, maybe he had to re-establish himself as the greatest drummer in metal. I don’t know if he did or not; he’d be able to answer that. But if it starts with that – you have the beat of “What Doesn’t Die” or “Nobody Knows Anything” and that’s so amazing, it’s hard to put something that’s not going to be equally as heavy on there, vocally or musically, to go with that. So it all starts with the drums and the rhythm and the rhythm was amazing on this one.

MM: Very nice one. So how did it come about that you wound getting Keanu Reeves in the “Safe Home” video?

JB: Scott is friends with Keanu, and we had this idea originally of a bunch of people doing a cameo in the video, and it turns out that he was the only one we really got. [Laughs] He was really cooperative and excited about doing the part. And everybody else that we asked…some of it was schedule conflicts, some of it was, “Oh, yeah, yeah, I’ll do that,” and never really came down to do it. But he did it and it was great and it turned out to be good because it made it seem like he was the only one in the video other than the band, so that worked out actually good. It was fun. He was really enthused, and then he actually came to see to see us play at the House Of Blues in L.A. and was blown away. He’d never seen Anthrax play and it was cool.

MM: Made a good first impression, that’s cool. So when did you go with Sanctuary Records? It wasn’t too long ago, was it?

JB: It was actually about 2 months before the record came out here. The record was actually released in Japan in February and in March in Europe on Nuclear Blast, and America was the only territory that was undetermined. We were able to fix things. We had a really bad record contract with the company we were with, Beyond, who fell apart, and they were making it very difficult for us to get out of it, even though they were not going to put out the record. But they had our rights, so we had to be patient and, thankfully, at the very end, Sanctuary was able to get us out of the contract.

MM: So you were on Beyond right before that, then…

JB: We were on Beyond in America. They had licensed a deal through Nuclear Blast in Europe and we were always with JVC in Japan. But they weren’t a company anymore. But yet, even though they weren’t a company anymore, they still had the rights of the contract. So it was a nightmare, quite honestly. And luckily, Sanctuary got us out of it. And yeah, deep down, probably, we didn’t have a whole lot of time to set up the record with Sanctuary, and I think that hurt us a little bit. We’re still trying to fix that, because there’s been some cracks in the floor, I think, because of probably a little bit of that – having to deal with the fact that they just didn’t have a lot of preparation. And setting up a record is really important; probably the most important thing. You just don’t put it out there – you’ve got to prepare people for it—

MM: Let them know it’s coming.

JB: Right. Exactly. Promote it. So we’re trying to make up for that and do what we can do to let people know.

MM: Right. And Sanctuary seems to be a pretty good label, too. I’ve dealt with them before. I’ve noticed that they do quite a bit with what they have. More than some others I’ve seen, anyway.

JB: Well, we’re not super thrilled yet, to be honest with you. I mean, we think they can do more. But we’re working with them. They have a lot of bands and a lot of bands that are similar to us like Ministry and Queensryche and Iron Maiden…bands that had a history. And it’s a new generation, they’re still trying to remain cutting edge and stay very current, you know. It’s up to them to inform people beyond the Anthrax fans. The average Anthrax fan is going to be somewhat aware that we have a new record, but we’re still trying to reach newer people. That’s what the record company’s job is, to let people know that, “Hey, you’re not a huge Anthrax fan? You should get this record because of A, B, C, and D.” I mean, the Anthrax fans, they’ll know. They’re on it. But it’s up to them to find the outer reaches. And I think they still have a little more work to do in that area, but we’re staying behind it and we’re trying to be all unified.

MM: Well, I’ve seen that– (to [Acosta]) In fact, you were telling me on the way here that, up in Chicago, that “Safe Home” is #1 in that market on the all-request shows.

JB: Yeah, on that station up there we’re doing really well.

MM: So it seems to be doing well, especially with all the new kids out there. I’ve heard a lot of it in the media that there’s always the concern of keeping up with them, but you’ve managed to have done pretty damn well, I think.

JB: Yeah, and there’s two different ways to look at it. On the other hand, this band’s been around 20 years, and you’re not going to probably stay on top for 20 years. That’s asking a lot. About the only band that’s able to do that is Metallica and they’ve faltered a little bit. They still didn’t sell what they sold on The Black Album on [St. Anger]. That’s probably pretty much impossible to do that. But then, I was reading an article on Led Zeppelin the other day and Zeppelin, as amazing as they were, they were around 10 years. So we’ve doubled that – this band’s been around 20 years. It’s not going to be easy to always be on the top when you’re there. The best thing to do is to try to make all the right moves and try to make the least amount of mistakes. And hopefully that will keep this balance to sustain a certain level of popularity. Because people are going to come and go, let’s face it. Older fans, they – who knows? They get married, they have children, they stop listening to hard rock music. They just do. I don’t know if they start buying pop records or if they just stop buying records. But they do. We’ve heard it. We’ve heard it numerous times – where people go, “Oh, Anthrax, I used to listen to you.” Well, why not anymore? “Well, I’ve got kids…” What, you don’t listen to music? What’s with that, did you stop listening to music? But some people do. Therefore, when those people start to fade away, the objective is to get newer fans to replenish that. That’s the job, and that’s the difficulty in what we’re trying to do. But there are a lot of new fans. Strangely enough, last night we played a show and it wasn’t one of our best on the tour, but there were a lot of younger people there, so it was encouraging. You said you’ve never seen the band, so, in a sense, you’re new to the band. So it’s a good sign. We just need, maybe larger numbers of people coming in.

[GA]: And I’m married with a kid, too.

JB: [Laughs] Well there you go! How old are you?

[GA]: 26.

MM: And I’m divorced with a kid, and I turned 29 this year, so…not all of us disappear, thank you!

JB: [Laughs] No, I’m not saying that. Why people think that I don’t know, necessarily. And we want all fans to come – I don’t give a fuck if you’re 70! [Laughs] Serious, bro, I don’t care how old you are and how many years you’ve been with the band or how few years. Please come. Please come rock out to us. But this is the reality is what I’m saying. But that’s okay, because that’s life. People have to do what they’ve got to do in life. For me, music is a thing that drives me as a person. I love music. I’m always going to listen to music. That’s what we are is musicians. I’m always going to buy records.

MM: Exactly. We talked earlier about the label changes and the 9/11 thing – that’s an awful lot to stand strong through and still survive after almost 20 years now.

JB: Yeah, and that shows persistence and endurance, and that’s something this band definitely has, so that’s a good thing. It’s not always easy, but on the other hand, I would rather be doing this than digging ditches.

MM: Yeah, this is true. I know, on quite a few albums since Stomp 442 – well, I know Dimebag [Darrell, guitarist, Damageplan, ex-Pantera] has been on all of them.

JB: He was on Stomp, Volume 8, and now this one.

MM: Yep, and Phil Anselmo [lead singer, Superjoint Ritual, ex-Pantera] was on one—

JB: Right, he did a guest appearance, and Roger Daltery [lead singer, The Who] is on the new one.

MM: Right, and I was going to ask about that one, because that – wow.

JB: [Laughs] Yeah. Scott’s girlfriend is friends with Roger and his family. They had dinner one night, and Roger said he wanted to sing on the record, so we just had to find a song that would be best appropriate for his voice and that one [“Taking The Music Back”] seemed to be the right one.

MM: Yeah, that one worked out well.

JB: It has almost like a classic rock feeling to that song.

MM: Yeah. And Dime, is he just good friends with the band?

JB: Yeah, Dime has just always been there, you know, Since Danny [Spitz] left until Rob, now a really solid lead guitar player in the band. For a couple years it was still really unsure. Paul Crook toured with us and played leads on record, but it wasn’t really a solid situation. But Dimebag, he has a lot of fire when he comes on record. It’s cool to have him there. He’s awesome.

MM: And Rob [Caggiano], he was with the Scrap 60 production team.

JB: Yeah, Rob was with the Scrap 60 production team. Rob and Eddie are partners. They have that company called Scrap 60 and they produce a bunch of records, and it was fun. They did a lot of eating on the recording. They take long breaks to eat [Laughs], but at the end of the day the record turned out to be really, really awesome.

MM: Excellent. Now, have they produced a couple of other ones also?

JB: Yeah. They’ve produced Dry Kill Logic; Rob mixed the Cradle Of Filth Record. He’s done a lot of things on his own; I can’t think of them now off the top of my head but you can ask him and he can give you a rundown on all the stuff he’s done.

MM: Cool. I thought that Scrap 60 had worked a couple of Anthrax albums, including Stomp 442—

JB: No, that was the Butcher Brothers.

MM: Ahh, okay. That’s what I’m getting confused.

JB: Yeah, and then Paul co-produced Volume 8 with us – and now he’s touring with Meatloaf.

MM: Oh wow. Nice. So, anything in particular planned next? Are you doing another road tour or—

JB: We’re going to do another video – for the song “What Doesn’t Die”. It’ll be fun. Supposed to be a bunch of zombies in it. It’ll be really creepy. We’re looking forward to it. The guy, Brian Posehn, who’s a comedian and actor, will be directing. He’s the guy who’s in Just Shoot Me – he’s the blond, tall, balding guy. He’s a friend of the band and he’s going to direct it. We’re also going to do a recording of a bunch of old Anthrax songs – stuff from the Joey Belladonna era. Do kind of a live recording of it, just in the studio, and the DVD of that and that’s going to surface in different ways. There’s going to be a boxed set next year, too, that Island [Records] is putting out throughout the career of the band. So there’s a lot of cool stuff coming up, and then I’m sure we’re going to continue touring. I don’t know when we’re going to come back down here…we’re going to do another run in November and December and then we’ll take a break for the holidays. And then we’re hoping to go to South America, Japan, Australia – we haven’t been to any of those places in a while. Well, we played the Fuji Rock Festival in Japan this year, but we haven’t done a legit tour there since ’98. And, who knows? I’m sure touring is going to be a big aspect of it because that’s what it is.

MM: Hitting the road and building the fan base, that way you’re luring in the new fans and keeping everybody else around.

JB: Right.

MM: I think I’ve about touched on everything I have—

[GA]: The cover art [for We’ve Come For You All].

MM: Yes! Thank you. [Comic artist] Alex Ross—

JB: Yeah—

MM: How was it that you wound up getting a hold of him for that?

JB: Our webmaster actually just contacted him. It was kind of like a pipe dream. He just threw [Ross] an e-mail, said “Would you be interested in doing Anthrax’s album cover?” And he said, “Yeah.” It was really that simple.

MM: So did it turn out he was a fan, then?

JB: I don’t think he was really that much of a fan; I mean he was, of course, aware of the band. I guess maybe it sounded interesting to him, so we took a bunch of pictures and we gave him a general idea of what we were thinking and he ran with it. He had some of his own ideas also.

MM: (unfolding inlay of CD and pointing to icons inside) It looks like he did a lot of these also—

JB: Our webmaster, Brent, actually did all of those icons. He did an awesome job on all of these. [Ross] only did the cover. [Brent] did a good job, he and Alex. Our back drop is up [on the stage]. You can see it. It’s amazing. The artwork is really, really cool. He made us superheroes, which is nice of him.

MM: Yeah. And I like that everybody is reaching in and all of you’re reaching out to them.

JB: It’s cool. Really came out amazing.

MM: Excellent. Well after he reminded me of that, I think that may be everything.

JB: Alright, guys.

[GA]: Thank you, man.

MM: Yes, thank you very much.

JB: Thank you. Good meeting you guys.

 

Dallas Coyle and God Forbid, Part 03

More than two weeks later, we finally get to the third and final installment of this. 

That. Was always. The issue. With me trying to maintain. A regular Blog. Or anything relating to building anything personal. Was the time - or lack thereof - that I had to devote to it. I've beaten that dead horse, buried it and dug it up a few more times to keep kicking its ass, so I'll stop that train of thought right there.

Now then, the final interview with Dallas Coyle. Which I thought for a while had caused some tension between him and God Forbid's lead vocalist, Byron Davis. I heard Davis speak on Doc Coyle's podcast, The Ex-Man, about how a former member of the band thought he was much more instrumental to the band's sound and success than everybody else. And Davis was none to happy about it.

I don't know for sure the the comments made in our interview are what he was referring to, or Dallas's blog on why he left the band, or something else entirely. I have no way of verifying that my interview was the source of that, so I'm not going to make that claim. 

But I'm confident that I can claim I was the first to publish Dallas Coyle's side on why he left God Forbid. And that interview is below.

 

+++++++

 

411 Music Interview: Dallas Coyle 

Posted by Michael Melchor on 02.25.10

Now it can be told.

It’s been almost a year since Dallas Coyle, guitarist and vocalist for God Forbid, left the band. At the time, the band had just released the follow up to 2007’s critically-acclaimed IV: A Constitution of Treason. Earthsblood started out strong enough with the band & the record 100%–

–until word came that Dallas was sitting out the tour. Rumors began running rampant that Dallas was not only sitting out the tour, but the band as a whole entity. The rumors came to a halt when Dallas’s brother, Doc Coyle addressed the statements and rumors by announcing the truth: his own brother had, indeed, left the band.

At the time, no one knew what was going on or why Dallas had left his band and his brother behind. However, it is a situation that was building for a few years; a 2007 interview with Dallas for 411 Music showed signs of Dallas already burning out on the cycle of touring. As it turns out, the seeds were much deeper – and planted much earlier.

“I wanted to leave as early as 2006,” Dallas revealed over a series of phone conversations starting on January 28. “I wanted to shift focus of the band away from Byron; Byron has that presence where he’s scarier when silent, but then erupts and scares the hell out of you. I wanted to shift the focus away from him as the frontman – the focal point of the band when we’re on stage – and on to myself. Of course, the band didn’t want to go for it,” Dallas laughs, somewhat self-deprecatingly, before going a little deeper into the problems.

“I wanted God Forbid to be different from other metal bands. After [IV: A Constitution Of Treason], I was looking to kind of steer away from the heavy thrash and go in more of a direction like Deftones White Pony with next album. More groove oriented & heavy without being all about thrash & speed. I wanted to change things up and really push the boundaries – see what we were capable of. Not only did no one in the band or at the label like the idea, but they all thought I was crazy!” he laughs.

In the wake of the announcement that Dallas had left, very little was heard from either camp. Doc Coyle summed up the reasons as best he could in his statement: I don’t want to go into the hairy details, but all I can say is that there was a mutual disagreement between Dallas and I, and the disagreement became angry on both sides, and he decided to sit out the tour the day we were supposed to leave. We later learned he did not want to tour anymore at all. Everyone in the band, including myself, was upset and shocked. For me, it’s a lot tougher because he’s my brother and I have a very close bond with him. We’ve done everything together our whole lives, so it’s difficult to deal with emotionally but I understand he has bigger responsibilities at home to care for. I wish he would’ve handled it in a different way, but I am not angry at him for leaving if he is unhappy with our situation. I really hope he finds success and happiness in his future pursuits.

The “mutual disagreement,” as it turns out, was the final impetus for the split that Dallas knew had to happen. “Doc & I had an argument that was the breaking point for all of this shit, but even that – it was like I could see it coming, you know? I just wasn’t happy with being told to be quiet and go with the flow. Never was.”

Dallas continues, “I did “God Forbid TV” for a while and then stopped because the last one was just me doing social commentary. I was working on film at the time and I was using “GFTV” to experiment with that. Doc pulled me aside once because the band wanted him to talk to me about it. Doc told me, ‘man, this isn’t God Forbid TV. None of us are even in it.’ I answered back, ‘Yeah it is – I’m in it. You have a member of the band in it.’ Other things I did like that, the band and everyone else always thought I was nuts. It’s just because I was always outspoken and never just wanted to go with the flow. I was also talked to – by not only the band, but some people at [Century Media] as well – about my first Metal Sucks blog. I mean, I called Hilary Clinton a nigger!”, he laughs again. “I was always told not to say certain things, just to shut up and play. All that did was make me madder and wanting to do it more because I hate being told what to do.

“All the things I did, things he did, were from not wanting to stay inside the box. I like taking risks and venturing out to see what else can be done. I wanted to do that with God Forbid – to see how far the band could have been taken if we’d switched up and gone in a different direction. The band never liked that and the label didn’t seem to care either way. I was displeased with ideological differences between myself and the rest of the band for a long time. I just knew I would leave the band at some point. It seemed everyone else in the band was content with being what we were and I didn’t like that because I knew we were capable of more. One of the biggest things that opened my eyes was our experience with Constitution Of Treason. I thought that record should have been a lot bigger than it was. I mean, it did very well and all the critics and fans of ours loved it, but I saw it as a fully realized work in the form of a metal album. I wrote all the lyrics for that album, and I thought it turned out really great. Century Media never really got behind it, though. After a pattern of that for a long time, I just got really frustrated at seeing all of my ideas go to waste. That’s when I saw the writing on the wall – when I knew I’d be out of the band sooner than later.”

Dallas’s own statement at the time was much more succinct and much less telling, simply telling his fans that, “his split from the band has nothing to do with any familial issues with his brother, but that he has decided to leave the band for personal reasons. Beyond that, he wishes to remain quiet at the time and asks that his privacy be respected.” Dallas later (barely) expounded on that statement, saying, ”I left God Forbid because I had personal issues to deal with and I felt I needed to move on. I’m proud of my time with the band and I’m proud of all the records we made. It was time to move on and that’s it.”

The band has moved on with Matt Wicklund (ex-Himsa) joining the band and Dallas keeping a lower profile, working on new projects and also formed his own consulting firm for bands and musicians. Everyone was happy in their own place, the metal world had moved on, cats and dogs joined hands to sing songs of peace, and all was right with the world.

Almost a year later, Dallas is ready to shed his “low profile” and get back to work on several projects. Musically, Dallas was recording under the moniker “Souls At War” – and had been for several months. No one really heard Souls At War, and that was deliberate. A new year meant new opportunities. Souls At War was scrapped, and from its ashes was born Genetic.

“The project is me and my vibe as far as what I want to hear in heavy music and the way I want it performed,” Dallas says of his new musical venture. “Souls At War was kind of a stepping stone – a way to learn recording a little bit and also to step back into metal. God Forbid was pretty heavy, but I didn’t know if I wanted to do that again. Then, the new year hit on a more positive note, and a lot of [the songs for Genetic] just came out of me. I never really wanted to scream or anything like that, but the aggressive voice I found for Genetic really fits for what I’m doing and I really don’t consider it screaming. I guess it does teeter on that, but it’s the way I would want to do it. Genetic is definitely the be-all-end-all version of the music I’m going to be doing for the near future. There’s going to be a lot to the project; the MySpace page is just the first step.”

The first step to much more planned. Dallas, apparently, has a lot planned in store for Genetic – much of it will shock long time fans of his former band and himself. Many that have heard the new project don’t quite know what to make of it – and Dallas is perfectly happy with that. “Every single person that’s given Genetic a good, proper listen – they all say something different about it. I’ve heard [that it sounds like] Testament to Alice In Chains to Rammstein, to Carcass – I’ve heard almost every band you could possibly think of,” he laughs. “And that’s what I want. If everyone said the exact same thing, that shit would be boring. I’m definitely achieving what I want to with that. The cool thing is, people are responding strongly. No one’s come out and said they don’t like it, but I’m sure there are going to be people that hate it,” he laughs again. “That’s what I’m looking for – I’m looking to divide the line. I want to hear that people love it and that people hate it. That reaction is better than no reaction at all.”

Among the items on his plate is – a rock opera? It’s an idea that even surprised Dallas himself. “That’s something based around the film stuff I’ve been doing. Me and my co-writer for “Polyester Dreams” [Andrew Harrison] are working on it. He came up with the idea to do a rock opera and I never thought about doing a rock opera because I write all kinds of different music. He suggested this and I said, ‘You know, I hate musicals. I hate musical films’,” he laughs. “I don’t like ‘Rocky Horror Picture Show’ or any of that stuff. But the thing is, the story we came up with together for the rock opera was pretty cool. So we started working out the songs and it started working out really well. So, we’re moving forward with that, working on some more stuff for it, and we may be shooting that soon.”

As for the comparisons to earlier work – such as the aforementioned Constitution Of Treason – the opera is still a different beast. “For a rock opera,” Dallas explains, “you have to write 3-4 different types of songs for, like, 3 different types of characters. It works out because I’m writing more music than I would if I didn’t have this outlet. Over the last 12 months, working on this and other stuff like this has helped me find a vibe for Genetic as well. I was able to separate what Genetic was from everything else. Genetic is 100% mine, whereas most of the other stuff I do is collaboration. Like, [Harrison] writes the lyrics for the rock opera. I just write the music. It’s more of a collaboration.”

As if two involving projects weren’t enough, there’s also a screenplay in the works. But not of the rock opera. “It’s called ‘The Vultures’. It’s a pretty weird movie that’s been kicking my ass,” he laughs. “I kinda came back to it after a long time of just letting it sit. [Andrew Harrison] and I are working on this as well, and this is kind of different. It takes a lot more time to get a feature [film] off the ground. It’s at that growing stage that anything hits – it’s in its ugly stage right now, but when it turns that corner, it’s going to be the mature form of what it’s going to be. We’re in that position with the script, and it’s been kicking my ass; my brain is hurting. So I put it down for a while to take a step back so I could look at it with fresh eyes.”

All three projects, Dallas sums up, “are all part of the same onion, I would say. They’re all separate, but I need one to fuel the other. I’m not a very one-track-minded person. One of the reasons I left God Forbid was because I couldn’t do that band my whole life. I’m not that type of person – I can’t be stuck with something forever because that shit is boring. I’m not interested in re-creating something over and over again. Once something is done, that’s it. I appreciate longevity, but I don’t appreciate beating a dead horse. One thing about me being in charge of Genetic – if I hit a wall, I can put it down and not have to worry about the pressure of other people wanting me to do it. I have the creative freedom now that I’ll really enjoy in the future.”